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The Confederate Flag
If you took a survey of FGCU not many students, if any, would admit to being a racist and most would likely say that racism doesn’t even exist today. The truth is completely different. So maybe these ignorant people aren’t going around announcing they are racist, but they discriminate against people because of their skin color. There are many different forms of racism from jokes to hate crimes and my personal favorite; the confederate flag.
One argument in favor of the confederate flag is that the flag represents the “rich history” of the south but of all the things in our countries history, you choose to be extremely proud of your ancestors being pro slavery? What about Native Americans who are very important to Florida’s history, or making it to the moon first? My point is that there is so more to be proud of than what I think of as an embarrassing moment in our countries history, The Civil War.
Hard core pro confederate flag advocates say that the civil war didn’t have anything to do with slavery and that it was an economic confrontation. Yeah, economic as in if they lost their slaves they wouldn’t have anyone to do their dirty work for them, such as picking cotton which was The South’s biggest money maker, there for a serious problem for the economy of the south.
Let’s just say that the civil war really didn’t have anything to do with slavery and it was something to be proud of, the use of it by hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan and Aryan race turned it into a symbol of racism in today’s society. Before Hitler, The Swastika did not represent hate and murder but rather life, power and strength. What the Swastika used to represent doesn’t matter anymore, what matters is how society views this symbol and relates it to The Holocaust. It wouldn’t be socially acceptable to display a Swastika anymore but why is okay to display the confederate flag? There are many people in The United States with German background but they don’t celebrate the Holocaust as being an important part of their history just like The South shouldn’t be proud of slavery.
29. October 2009 at 01:27
Stay in school PLEASE !
Or at least study. Your “ Bull Hockey” version of the Confederate flag leaves a lot to be desired !
You want an embarrassing moment in American history ?
The Revised Code of Indiana stated in 1862 that Negroes and mulattos are not allowed to come into the state ; forbade the consummation of legal contracts with Negroes and mulattos ; imposed a $500 fine on anyone who employed a black person; forbade interracial marriage; and forbade blacks from testifying in court against white persons.
Illinois the land of Lincoln added almost identical restrictions in 1848, as did Oregon in 1857. Most Northern states in the 1860s did not permit immigration by blacks or, if they did, required them to post a $1,000 bond that would be confiscated if they behaved improperly
But that’s a northern thing it doesn’t count does it ?
As for the KKK thing the following letter explains that.
Greetings,
In response I felt it important to explain that the Ku Klux Klan is not a political organization nor a fraternal organization. The Ku Klux Klan is a military organization which has fought anti-southern tyranny for 137 years, and has been quite successful. We do not consider the Confederate Battle Flag to be an issue of divisiveness. We are no longer using it in public, and have never sworn our allegiance to any flag but the U.S. Flag. The battle flag is simply an extension icon to pronounce our southern pride. As I said we no longer use the banner in public, so Its only fair that the S.C.V. and others quit using the KKK to parlay public apologetics. It’s slanderous and inaccurate at best.
God Bless, thank you for you moment.
J.L.H.
Grand Dragon - Realm of South Carolina
Southern White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc.
The lie is that the War for Southern Independence (or as the U.S. Congress officially declared it to be — The War Between the States; it was not a “civil war”) was fought over slavery, with the North fighting to free Southern slaves and the South fighting to keep her slaves. This is, of course, not true !
How could the North be fighting the War to free Southern slaves when they would not free their own, such as Ulysses S. Grant’s personal slave or Abraham Lincoln’s father-in-law’s slaves? What hypocrisy! Even worse, Lincoln and the U.S. Congress offered to pass a constitutional amendment for the South, guaranteeing permanent slavery forever in the slave states, if only the Southern states would return to the Union. The South refused the offer.
Northern slaves were even exempt from Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation. Furthermore, captured Southern slaves on the Mississippi River were forced to work on the plantations as slaves for the United States Army, growing cotton for Northern factories, rather than being set free. Also, during the War, just as many Union soldiers owned slaves as Confederate soldiers. Is the U.S. flag a symbol of slavery because the North owned slaves during the War?
Hitler was trying to rule the world, The south was trying to establish a new nation !
Thomas Jefferson, who in the Declaration of Independence, stated, “Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government.”
Within Lincoln’s first month in office, the U.S. Congress had passed the Morrill Tariff, which was the highest import tax in U.S. history, more than doubling the import tax rate from 20% to 47%, which was enough to bankrupt many Southerners. This oppressive tax was what pushed Southern states to legally withdraw from the voluntary Union, not slavery.
Study History ! Then make comments !
Dave Tatum
Suffolk VA.
29. October 2009 at 04:40
Point taken. Yes, racism is and has been pervasive throughout the US, north and south. And the civil war was motivated by a complex political economy …though to suggest that slavery was not at issue is disingenuous at best. The abolitionist movement was making great strides in the north and effectively lobbying to block the spread of slavery in the US territories, for which the writing was on the wall for the future of slavery.
I have only just a few questions. Exactly what “anti-southern tyranny” have you been fighting for so long? And how have you been fighting this tyranny? Who have been the targets of your “military” organization. Were they always people in a position to fight back? There’s a fine line between “military” and “militant.” But there isn’t a fine line between fighting tyranny and bullying the disempowered.
And your website, and the merchandise that you sell on that website, clearly displays the Confederate Battle Flag. I would suggest that a website is public; and unless you are mandating that all those people who purchase your t-shirts only wear them in their own house you are being disingenuous in this issue as well.
I can’t say which flag you and yours swear allegiance to, but your philosophy is one of fear and hate and exclusion; one of dehumanizing others in a vain attempt to prove your inglorious notions of superiority and reinforce your in-group paranoia. And the symbols you embrace, like the Confederate Battle Flag, bares the taint of that sick ideology regardless of its original intent as a symbol of southern pride.
29. October 2009 at 23:40
Perhaps you have misread my post,
The letter was from the————-
Grand Dragon - Realm of South Carolina
Southern White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc.
I posted it to show they do not swear alligence to the battle flag, I removed the web link to the letter so that I would not help spread the hate they have !
As for my web site ! I sell replica cannons ! I have no idea to the T- Shirt refrence !
“The Confederate Battle Flag, bares the taint of that sick ideology regardless of its original intent as a symbol of southern pride.”
I agree ! But as an SCV member I have sworn to protect the good name of the confererate’s who fought for independence ! NOT SLAVERY ! The battle flag is a part of that oath !
So I suggest you re read my original post. Then goback to my web site and look at it again !
Your emotions seem to have altered you vision !
Take off the blinders / calm down and try it again !
A few other of my postings —
Im NOT who you think I am !!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.suffolknewsherald.com/news/2009/may/29/man-finishes-homegrown-memorial/
http://terriorist1864.blogspot.com/
http://www.suffolknewsherald.com/news/2009/jun/01/preserving-tapestry/
http://cwmemory.com/2009/05/30/david-tatums-civil-war-memory/
Deo Vindice
Dave Tatum
Suffolk VA.
30. October 2009 at 04:05
Mr. Tatum:
Thank you for clarifying your position and participating in this important discussion. Please understand, from reading your initial comment it looked like you were espousing the philosophy of the KKK. I have made it a personal mission to combat those ideologies that serve to separate us rather than unite us in our humanity (which may not be a sociological position, but so be it). Therefore, my comments regarding the letter were not meant for you or your cause. My reference to the website was to the official Ku Klux Klan site. Contrary to the claim made by JLH, the Confederate Battle Flag is still featured prominently by the KKK, including on their merchandise–t-shirts, hats, mugs, the works.
The blog was a response to an in class activity involving the Confederate flag in which we discussed the complex nature of symbols, especially those symbols that have been co-opted for different purposes. My students are asked to see the complexities of issues and never to assume that the simplest explanation is the truth, much as you highlighted in your comment.
Again, thank you for clarifying, and good luck in your endeavors. Remember, though, that we all share a common humanity…regardless of the flags our ancestors fought and died under.
31. October 2009 at 20:42
Mr. Andoscia
Now that we are on an even keel, you stated -
My students are asked to see the complexities of issues and never to assume that the simplest explanation is the truth, much as you highlighted in your comment.
One more Item on my stance my oath
“To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we will commit the vindication of the cause for which we fought. To your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier’s good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, the perpetuation of those principles which he loved and which you love also, and those ideals which made him glorious and which you also cherish.”
I took the oath with passion !
And one starement for your students to consider !
“Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable and most sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so many of the territory as they inhabit.”
Abraham Lincoln
January 12, 1848.
I guess the statement goes along with–
” I am not a Crook” R.M.N.
“Read my lips, no new taxes !” G.B.
” I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski” B.C.
Some things never change.
Have a good day and thank you for letting your students see the big picture !
Dave Tatum
2. November 2009 at 02:07
I’m sorry but I need to comment on this. Dave Tatum..we were just asked to write down the first things that came to our head when Mr. Andoscia showed the picture of a confederate flag and that was it. There technically was not some big lesson on the flag. We talked about symbols and how they can mean things to different people, along with an entire lecture on how society creates meaning. The person who wrote this blog, as Mr. Andoscia said was just responding to that.
I don’t intend to start an argument with you of any kind. I just felt the need to back up the person who wrote this blog and my professor.
Hannah Rodriguez (FGCU)
9. November 2009 at 02:09
Mr. Andoscia must be an excellent teacher, to have students to guard his back.
best wishes to all
Dave Tatum